Dinosaurs

What do evolutionists say about dinosaurs?

Dinosaurs are a topic of fascination for many people today, whether for study or for entertainment. All through history, dinosaurs have been of interest to mankind, as we search for fossils and bones to try and recreate what dinosaurs may have looked like, or understand how they may have lived and behaved. They are a great mystery to us – we do not know what happened to them, only that they lived.

Evolution 3Evolutionists tell us that dinosaurs evolved over 200 million years  ago from a family of reptiles known as archosaurs. These lived in the triassic period of the mesozoic era, and were smaller than later dinosaurs.

Eventually they evolved into pterosaurs, crocodiles and dinosaurs in the jurassic period, between 150 and 200 million years ago. One of the first dinosaurs is said to be the eoraptor from Argentina, which ate small crocodiles, archosaurs and early pre-mammals and was about the size of a dog.

Evolution 2

Evolutionists then argue dinosaurs became extinct during the cretaceous period, around 65 million years ago. They cannot conclusively say why this happened, the most well-known argument is that it was because of an asteroid that hit Mexico, creating a 240km wide crater. The debris of this then blocked out the sun, creating a nuclear winter. However, why did this not kill all life on earth? Why did all dinosaur species die globally, but not all other species?

Another explanation is that there were huge volcanic eruptions and the ash blocked the sun, causing climate change which wiped out the dinosaurs. However, scientists widely agree that this does not match the expected global temperature at this time 65 million years ago.

A possibility is that plants called angiosperms began to flower 65 million years ago and created a mass allergic reaction among dinosaurs, however similar plants were around for millions of years before this and we cannot show that their pollen was able to kill dinosaurs.

If mammals also began to evolve in the triassic period, perhaps the competition was too much for the dinosaurs and they slowly became extinct due to lack of food and space? Again, this is unlikely because the mammals did not evolve until the dinosaurs were already dominant. Live Science said that in the jurassic period, “Early mammals were mostly very small herbivores or insectivores and were not in competition with the larger reptiles.” Also there were no ocean mammals for almost another 15 million years, but marine dinosaurs were still wiped out.

Evolution 1

Although our aim is not to discredit evolutionary ideas of how the dinosaurs died out, as yet they have not been able to offer a satisfactory explanation.

Using the same geological time scale, humans did not evolve until the quaternary period of the cenozoic era, about a million years ago. Therefore, according to evolutionists there was a time period of roughly 64 million years between when dinosaurs became extinct, and when humans first evolved.

Evolutionary theory relies on this in order to allow for enough time for the different species to theoretically evolve.

Richard Dawkins described “alleged human bones in the Carboniferous coal deposits. If authenticated as human, these bones would blow the theory of evolution out of the water.” (Free Inquiry, V.21, No.4, 10/11/2001)

The carboniferous period was in the paleozoic era, around 359 to 299 million years ago, and was supposedly when the first reptiles evolved. If human bones were found in a rock layer from this period, almost 300 million years before they were supposed to have evolved, this would falsify the theory of evolution.

Steven Stanley from Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore said “There is an infinite variety of ways in which, since 1859, the general concept of evolution might have been demolished. Consider the fossil record – a little known resource in Darwin’s day. The unequivocal discovery of a fossil population of horses in Precambrian rocks would disprove evolution. More generally, any topsy-turvy sequence of fossils would force us to rethink our theory”. (The New Evolutionary Timetable, 1981, p.171)

An episode of Nova, a science documentary series, called ‘God, Darwin and the Dinosaurs’ showed, “…dinosaur footprints, side by side with humans. Finding them would counter evidence that humans evolved long after the dinosaurs became extinct and back up…[the] claim that all species, including man, were created at one time.”

Louis Jacobs, former president of the Society of Vertebrate Palaeontology said, “co-occurrence of men and dinosaurs. Such an association would dispel an earth with vast antiquity. The entire history of creation, including the day of rest, could be accommodated in the seven biblical days of the Genesis myth. Evolution would be vanquished.”

All of these quotes show that the theory of evolution relies on a history of millions of years and humans evolving long after dinosaurs, with species evolving in the order their geologic time scale portrays. Without this presupposition, evolution falls apart.

This is why society today is so indoctrinated to believe that the dinosaurs evolved and went extinct millions of years ago, because if they question it, then evolutionary theory fails. If we can show that dinosaurs lived alongside humans, this would discredit the theory of evolution. For example, artefacts humans have created showing different images of dinosaurs, tales and stories of dinosaurs and biological or geological findings.

https://www.thoughtco.com/how-did-dinosaurs-evolve-1092130

http://palaeo.gly.bris.ac.uk/communication/boulton/evolution.html

https://eden.uktv.co.uk/blog/article/why-are-dinosaurs-extinct/

http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/carboniferous/carboniferous.php

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/ocean-giants-going-aquatic-cetacean-evolution/7577/

https://www.livescience.com/28739-jurassic-period.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JMPCcRjY18

http://www.bible.ca/tracks/dino-human-coexistence-implications.htm

Where does the Bible say about dinosaurs?

Exodus 20:11 says, “For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is…”. On the sixth day of creation, God created all earth-dwelling animals, as well as man. Therefore, dinosaurs and man lived together according to the Bible.

The word ‘dinosaur’ was first coined in 1842 by the palaeontologist Sir Richard Owen, meaning ‘terrible lizards’. Before this, animals that match our understanding of some species of dinosaurs were called ‘dragons’. If man and dinosaurs did co-exist, prior to 1842 they would have been called dragons.

The word dragon is used in the Bible 35 times. This is used both literally and figuratively. For example,

Isaiah 34:13, “And thorns shall come up in her palaces, nettles and brambles in the fortresses thereof: and it shall be an habitation of dragons, and a court for owls.”

Jeremiah 14:6, “And the wild asses did stand in the high places, they snuffed up the wind like dragons; their eyes did fail, because there was no grass.”

In the verse from Isaiah, it seems to reference dragons as a literal, existent species, whereas the verse in Jeremiah uses them for comparison. However, both verses show that dragons both existed literally, and also were well known about.

The word dinosaur was not yet created when the King James Bible was translated, therefore the word logically could not have been used in the Bible. However, the translators used the word ‘dragon’, with the same intended meaning.

The Bible also describes a creature named leviathan:

  • which cannot be drawn “with an hook” (Job 41:1)
  • which has “scales” (Job 41:15)
  • “Out of his nostrils goeth smoke” (Job 41:20)
  • “a flame goeth out of his mouth” (Job 41:21)
  • “The arrow cannot make him flee: slingstones are turned with him into stubble. Darts are counted as stubble: he laugheth at the shaking of a spear.” (Job 41:28-29)
  • the sea is made for leviathan “to play therein” (Psalm 104:26)
  • “leviathan the piercing serpent” (Isaiah 27:1)
  • “leviathan that crooked serpent” (Isaiah 27:1)

As well as a creature called behemoth:

  • “his strength is in his loins” (Job 40:16)
  • “He moveth his tail like a cedar” (Job 40:17)
  • “his bones are like bars of iron” (Job 40:18)
  • “he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not” (Job 40:23)
  • “his nose pierceth through snares” (Job 40:24)

These descriptions seem to illustrate creatures beyond what we see living today, and seem to be closer to our findings of dinosaurs. There are also references in the Bible to the “dragons in the waters” (Psalm 74:13) and a “fiery flying serpent” (Isaiah 30:6).

Since dragons/dinosaurs are referred to in the Bible, we can therefore assume that the authors of the Bible, or those living around that time, had some kind of knowledge about dinosaurs. Although it doesn’t seem to fit with evolutionary timescales of when dinosaurs supposedly lived, the most logical explanation for this would be that humans did actually live with dinosaurs. We will examine this possibility below.

https://www.quora.com/Where-did-the-word-Dinosaur-originate#

https://www.etymonline.com/word/dinosaur

Archeological evidence:

If humans and dinosaurs lived at the same time, we should expect to find evidence of this. For example, in the study of archeology and anthropology, in ancient artwork and artifactual findings.

One line of evidence we can follow is from archeological evidence or artwork. Millions of artifacts have been found which feature what we would recognise as a dinosaur or a dragon.

For example:


1

This is part of the Narmer Palette, an Egyptian tablet which is one of the oldest pieces of pottery we have, containing some of the earliest hieroglyphics, named after the Egyptian king Narmer. It shows two long-necked sauropod dinosaurs.

 


2

This long-necked sauropod dinosaur is shown on a hippo tusk, which was found in an Egyptian tomb of a servant named Inherka.

 


3

This dinosaur is known as the Mušḫuššu, from ancient Mesopotamian mythology, and is depicted on the Ishtar gate of Babylon, dated to the 6th century BC.

 


4

Viking ships often displayed dragon heads to scare off their enemies.

 

 


5

Germany has castles with dragons on the walls, such as this castle in Landstuhl, built in the 12th century.

 

 


6

An English cathedral has dinosaurs engraved on the tomb of a bishop from the 15th century.


7

This marble fragment has a dragon engraved on it, and comes from a 16th century castle in Hungary.

 

 


8

This Russian medallion shows a knight slaying a dragon.

 

 


9

This dinosaur petroglyph (a drawing carved on rock) was found on the walls of the Havasupai Canyon in Northern Arizona in 1924. The director of the expedition said, “The fact that some prehistoric man made a pictograph of a dinosaur on the walls of this canyon upsets completely all our theories regarding the antiquity of man.”


10

This dinosaur was found in Blanding, Utah, and is said to have been created by the Anasazi, who lived in the area from 400-1300 AD.

 


11

This dinosaur rock art was found in Ontario, Canada in the Agawa Canyon, created by the Sioux Indians.

 


 

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The slideshow shows Ica stones, a collection of stones found in a cave in Ica,  Peru. Archeologists have located many of these, for example Javier Cabrera was a Peruvian doctor who collected over 15,000 Ica stones. The stones show many different scenes, including men fighting dinosaurs or even domesticating dinosaurs. Some of them are very advanced, for example showing brain surgery or open heart surgery or a tracheotomy.


18

Fabrics from Peru have been found with dinosaurs on them.

 


Roman artifacts were found in 1925, including a sword with a dinosaur engraved on it.


21

This creature that looks very similar to a stegosaurus was found carved into the Angkor Wat, a Buddhist temple in Cambodia.

 


 

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These figurines were found on the slopes of El Toro mountain, near Acambaro, Mexico. Over 33,500 were found, showing a range of different dinosaurs. In some cases, they have even been shown more accurate than how we thought the dinosaurs looked, for example when iguanodon bones were first found, scientists created an incorrect interpretation of what  it may have looked like, but with subsequent findings it has become more accurate, and also more similar to how it was depicted in the figurines.


27

This image comes from a bestiary from the Middle Ages, a collection of information describing different types of beasts. Many of them show elephants fighting with dragons.

 

 


29

This image comes from the Kuku Yalanji tribe in Australia. They drew this and described a creature called the Yarru who lived in large waterholes in the rainforest. It is an accurate image of a plesiosaurus.

 


30

This wall art was found in northern Peru on the edge of the Amazon rainforest in 2012, which secular archeologists believed to be over 5000 years old. It shows a group of warriors fighting a dinosaur.

 


31The Dayak of Borneo and Sumatra produced artwork showing animals that looked like hadrosaurs, or the rinchens mongoliensis, which is a type of oviraptor.

 


 32This dinosaur was carved into the Grand Canyon by Native Americans.

 

 

 


This terracotta figurine was found in Caria, Turkey with this piece of broken pottery, both depicting a stegosaurus.


35

This Roman mosaic is from about 200AD and shows two long-necked dinosaurs.

 


36

This is an image of an Anasazi prayer stick, which shows the head of a pteranodon.

 

 


37

This image is from the temple of Muktinath, in Nepal. On the wall of the temple are 108 fountains shaped like dinosaur heads. They resemble ceratopsian dinosaurs, such as a triceratops.

 

 


These Nazcan vases were found in Peru, showing sauropod dinosaurs.


While this evidence cannot prove that humans coexisted with dinosaurs, it needs to be explained. How did humans have such an awareness of dinosaurs? How did they know what they looked like? Why did they display them on castle walls, pottery, tombs and weapons? Why did they create figurines and carve them into stones and walls and put them in historical records?

Furthermore, the dinosaurs in the images and stories have personality. They have a sense of reality from the people who created them, could they really all have come from finding bones in the ground? Would they have illustrated and recreated these bones as living animals that they described fighting and coexisting with?

This is only speculation, but it is far more likely that they had a living knowledge of dinosaurs from living alongside them. How likely is it that cultures from across the world all independently created artwork and images of dinosaur-like creatures, that all matched with each other and also then perfectly coincide with fossil and bone discoveries?

There is such a diversity of artwork, such a multitude of species of dinosaurs and how they are represented, and yet they do not contradict our modern understanding of dinosaurs, or challenge each other. 

The best explanation is that humans and dinosaurs actually lived together. Evolutionists argue that no man has ever seen a live dinosaur, but how can they explain the evidence against this?

https://www.ancient.eu/Narmer_Palette/

http://www.crystalinks.com/icastones.html

http://www.bible.ca/tracks/tracks-acambaro-dinos.htm

https://www.discoveryworld.us/dinosaur-world/dinosaur-figurines-of-mexico-investigated/

http://www.bible.ca/tracks/dino-art.htm

Fossil evidence:

We can also expect to see evidence from fossils of humans living with dinosaurs.

For example, some people claim to have found rocks with dinosaur and human footprints together, such as the images below. 

The second image shows a human footprint, with a dinosaur footprint over the top. This would show that humans and dinosaurs coexisted, as they are in the same rock layer, and therefore according to geologists, they formed during the same era.

We can test the fossils to see whether or not they are authentic. For example, by scanning the rock, we can see that they were made by a genuine imprint which put pressure on the sediment underneath, compacting it before it was fossilised. If the rock has not been compacted, it may have been carved into the rock. 

In order for a footprint to be fossilised, it has to be printed in a soft material such as sand or mud and then buried in a blanket of sediment to preserve it. Many of these fossils were created during the flood, as the waters would have washed large amounts of sediment over soft, wet land, fossilising the footprints created from animals trying to escape. 

3Dinosaur ‘swim tracks’ have also been found, which are fossils showing only part of the foot, suggesting that the dinosaurs were trying to swim. This could be evidence of the dinosaurs experiencing the global flood, as we have no other evidence that dinosaurs swam normally, but perhaps they were trying to survive and escape the flood waters. Since these tracks are so well preserved, it also suggests that they were quickly buried.

4

Furthermore, this hammer was found in a layer of cretaceous rock, which was supposedly 65 million years old. Other human tools and artefacts have been found near dinosaur bones and fossils, showing that there was not 65 million years between humans and dinosaurs existing.

Another argument is that if dinosaurs lived alongside humans, we should expect that they lived alongside other animals that are alive today as well. In fact we do find this, many other types of animal bones have been found in rocks that are supposedly as old as the dinosaurs, such as ducks, squirrels, rabbits, platypus and beavers.

According to evolutionary methods, this would show that these animals also lived alongside dinosaurs, and therefore either the dinosaurs were not as old as they believe or their scale of when different animals evolved is incorrect.

http://ucmp.berkeley.edu/science/trackways/trackways2.php

https://www.discoveryworld.us/dinosaur-world/dinosaur-tracks/

https://youtu.be/IUQeN7INIc8

https://creation.com/geology-documents-dinosaurs-fleeing-noahs-flood

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoogZdYIYUQ&t=230s

http://s8int.com/phile/page70.html

Biological evidence:

Biological evidence could include findings of dinosaur proteins and red blood cells which shows that they did not die millions of years ago. Fossilisation usually only preserves harder material such as bone, and yet soft material has been found in “scrappy, poorly preserved fossils” (CBC).

1Dr Mary Schweitzer studied a fossilised t-rex thigh bone in 2005 and found blood vessels usually seen in bone and marrow, containing red blood cells with nuclei. She also found collagen in the same sample in 2007, which is a protein found in connective tissues in the body, shown in the images.

Schweitzer also studied the leg bone of a hadrosaur in 2009 that had been kept in sandstone, supposedly for 80 million years. In this case, they found collagen, haemoglobin, elastin and laminin and structures resembling blood cells and bone cells. She also replicated this in a study in 2017 and found eight sequences of collagen in one sample.

Schweitzer, an evolutionist, said in 2010, “When you think about it, the laws of chemistry and biology and everything else that we know say that it should be gone, it should be degraded completely.”

In 2015, researchers working in England reported finding blood cells and collagen in dinosaur fossils believed to be 75 million years old. One of the researchers said, “So far, such soft flesh tissues were only ever found in serendipitous fossils preserved in exceptionally rare circumstances, for example, by being frozen in ice or in a dry environment free of microbes that would otherwise break down the flesh”.

However, the New Scientist article on this finding calls it a “bog-standard fossil bone”. The same researcher said, “But the fossils we looked at were not rare at all.”

They analysed the red blood cells using mass spectrometry, and said that the composition was very similar to the blood of an emu.

With an increasing number of similar findings, this information suggests that the preservation of blood cells and protein structures such as collagen may not be rare. Scientists have estimated that if DNA was well preserved without exposure to heat, water and sunlight, it would last about 6.8 million years, but would not be readable after about 1.5 million years, and yet the scientists who studied the preserved blood cells said that better preserved dinosaur fossils may have extractable DNA.

A research team in Sweden also found preserved collagen in the fossilised bone of a mosasaur, a large marine dinosaur. The mosasaur was found in rock calculated as 70 million years old, so how could these biological elements survive for so long? Scientists have attempted to offer different explanations, but no one can explain how they have remained intact for millions of years.

All of this research together demonstrates to evolutionists that biological molecules can survive the process of fossilisation. However, it is unexplainable how it has managed to remain intact in poorly preserved fossils for over 65 million years. Scientists have never seen a form of fossilisation that can preserve cells and proteins for this long. Schweitzer’s findings are more similar to recent studies of Egyptian mummies or humans that died in the last 5000 years. Could it be possible that dinosaurs died more recently than evolutionists believe?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/dinosaur-blood-cells-proteins-found-in-crummy-alberta-fossils-1.3106247

https://creation.com/still-soft-and-stretchy

https://creation.com/dino-dna-bone-cells

https://answersingenesis.org/fossils/3-soft-tissue-in-fossils/

https://answersingenesis.org/dinosaurs/bones/more-soft-tissue-in-old-fossils/

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17060-first-dino-blood-extracted-from-ancient-bone/

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/09/i-don-t-care-what-they-say-about-me-paleontologist-stares-down-critics-her-hunt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS6TXh_bx8Q

https://news.ncsu.edu/2017/01/schroeter-collagen/

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11591-tyrannosaurus-rex-fossil-gives-up-precious-protein/

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn27687-dinosaur-blood-cells-extracted-from-75-million-year-old-fossil/#.VXg5s1xVikr

https://creation.com/dinosaur-soft-tissue-and-protein-even-more-confirmation

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/05/110502092255.htm

Socio-cultural evidence:

Socio-cultural evidence of dinosaurs and humans co-existing could come from spoken history, writings, legends and stories. There are thousands of legends of people seeing, fighting or living with dinosaurs or dragons. 


1For example, the Greek historian Herodotus wrote in ‘The History of Herodotus, Book 2’ about winged serpents:

“There is a region moreover in Arabia… to which place I came to inquire about the winged serpents: and when I came thither I saw bones of serpents and spines in quantity so great that it is impossible to make report of the number, and there were heaps of spines, some heaps large and others less large and others smaller still than these, and these heaps were many in number.”

“As for the serpent its form is like that of the watersnake; and it has wings not feathered but most  nearly resembling the wings of the bat.”


212.pngAlexander the Great invaded India in 330BC and reported seeing a huge hissing dragon in a cave, which the people worshipped as a god. The Indian king was said to have kept serpents 120-210 feet long. When Alexander passed by the dragon’s cave, he estimated it was 70 cubits long, with eyes the size of a large shield. Claudius Aelianus recorded this in his book, ‘On Animals’.


311.pngMarco Polo travelled Asia and Persia between 1271-1291AD and recorded his findings in ‘The Travels of Marco Polo’. He wrote about dragons in an area called Karajan, saying:

“Here are seen huge serpents, ten paces in length (about 30 feet), and ten spans (about 8 feet) girt of the body. At the fore part, near the head, they have two short legs, having three claws like those of a tiger… The jaws are wide enough to swallow a man, the teeth are large and sharp, and their whole appearance is so formidable, that neither man, nor any kind of animal can approach them without terror…

“When therefore the animals make their way towards the places they usually haunt, they are wounded by these instruments, and speedily killed. The crows, as soon as they perceive them to be dead, set up to scream; and this serves as a signal to the hunters, who advance the spot, and proceed to separate the skin from the flesh, taking care immediately to secure the gall, which is  most highly esteemed in medicine.”


4Gaius Plinius Secundus (Pliny) was a first century Roman author, who wrote in his book ‘The Natural History’:

“Africa produces elephants, but it is India that produces the largest, as well as the dragon… itself of so enormous a size, as easily to envelop the elephant with its folds, and encircle them in its coils.”

He goes on to describe the fight between a dragon and an elephant, saying the dragon holds “the legs of the elephant with the folds of its tail; while the elephant, on the other hand, tries to disengage itself with its trunk. The dragon, however, thrusts its head into its nostrils, and thus, at the same moment, stops the breath, and wounds the most tender parts… The dragons, it is said, are of such vast size that they can swallow the whole of the blood; consequently the elephant, being drained of its blood, falls to the earth”.

He also wrote about a dragon killed on Vatican Hill with the body of a child found inside, and studied uses for dragon teeth, hearts and eyes.


5.png Ulisse Aldrovandi was an Italian doctor who wrote a book called ‘Historia Animalium’, where he described many different animals he had observed. He wrote about and drew many different dragons, and gave an account of a peasant named Baptista who hit a small dragon on the head with his walking stick and killed it.

He also drew and described the Ethiopian winged dragon, saying that he had received a specimen of it in 1551. He described it as “having two feet armed with claws, and two ears… The whole was ornamented with green and dusky scales. Above, it bore wings fit for flight, and had a long flexible tail, coloured with yellowish scales, such as shone on the belly and throat. The mouth was provided with sharp teeth…”.


8Saxo Grammaticus wrote a sixteen-volume book called ‘Gesta Danorum’ in the 13th century, which is one of the oldest sources on early Danish history. He told this story of King Frotho and his fight with a giant reptile, and described it as, “wreathed in coils, doubled in many a fold, and with a tail drawn out in whorls, shaking his manifold spirals and shedding venom.”

He says not to “let the point of the jagged tooth trouble thee, nor the starkness of the beast, nor the venom… there is a place under his lowest belly whither thou mayest plunge the blade…”. The Volsunga Saga is a 13th century Icelandic tale which also describes the same  weakness in the tale of Sigurd killing the dragon Fafnir.


9.pngStrabo was a first century Greek historian who traveled and wrote that in India, “there are reptiles two cubits long with membranous wings like bats, and that they too fly by night, discharging drops of urine, or also of sweat, which putrefy the skin of anyone who is not on his guard.”


10Samuel Bochart was a 17th century writer who described an ancient Hebrew work called ‘Porta Coeli’ which mentioned “the flying seraph [that] sets fire to the air, corrupting all that is near it.” He also described, “the serpent with wings who circles and hurls himself at you, the flying snake, hide yourself… There are winged and flying serpents that can be found who are venomous, who snort,  and are savage and kill with pain worse than fire”.


111.pngAntonio Pigafetta was a 16th century Italian explorer who described seeing serpents  in the Congo, saying, “There are also certain other creatures which, being as big as rams, have wings like dragons, with long tails, and long chaps, and divers rows of teeth, and feed upon raw flesh. Their colour is blue and green, their skin painted like scales, and they have two feet but no more.”


121.pngProspero Alpino wrote a history of Egypt in the 1580s, and described reports of flying serpents. He wrote, “we have heard talk, nevertheless, that there is a small serpent, as long as a palm branch, and thick like a small finger. It has a small piece of skin, like a crest, on its head and, in the middle of the back, two scales placed on one side and the other which serve as wings in order to advance more quickly. Large numbers of people have said that these serpents live in large quantities close to certain lakes in which the Nile has its source.”


13Athanasius Kircher was a 17th century writer, who wrote about a man named Christopher Schorerum’s sighting of “a shining dragon of great size in front of Mt. Pilatus, coming from the opposite side of the lake, a cave that is named Flue moving rapidly in an agitated way, seen flying across; It was of a large size, with a long tail, a long neck, a reptile’s head, and ferocious gaping jaws… I understood it was indeed a dragon from the motion of the limbs of the entire body.”


7.pngTitus Livius Patavinus was a Roman historian in the first century, who recorded  Roman history. He described a reptile that attacked the Roman army, saying, “After many soldiers had been seized in its mouth, and many more crushed by the folds of its tail, its hide being too thick for javelins and darts, the dragon was at last attacked by military engines and crushed by repeated blows from heavy stones.”


14.pngLucius Flavius Philostratus was a Greek scholar in the 3rd century, who wrote a book titled ‘The Life of Apollonius of Tyana’, where he gives many descriptions of dragons.

He wrote, “…they say they came in for a dragon hunt, which I must needs describe… The whole of India is girt with dragons of enormous size; for not only the marshes are full of them, but the mountains as well, and there is not a single ridge without one. Now the marsh kind are sluggish in their habits and are thirty cubits long, and they have no crest standing up on their heads, but in this respect resemble the she-dragons. Their backs however are very black, with fewer scales on them than the other kinds…

“And the dragons along the foothills and the mountain crests make their way into the plains after their quarry, and prey upon all the creatures in the marshes; for indeed they reach an extreme length, and move faster than the swiftest rivers, so that nothing escapes them. These actually have a crest, of moderate extent and height when they are young; but as they reach their full size, it grows with them and extends to a considerable height, at which time also they turn red and get serrated backs… and lift their necks on high, while their scales glitter like silver…”.


15.pngOne of the most famous examples from history is of St George and the dragon, which first became popular in the 12th century. The story says that he travelled to Libya, where the king’s daughter was about to be sacrificed to a dragon. He went to the dragon’s cave, where it came out to fight him. The  dragon’s tail was fifty feet long, and St George’s spear could not pierce the dragon’s scales. He fell off his horse and then struck the dragon under his wing, killing it.

16This story has become popular across the world, and St George is the patron saint of multiple countries. It has featured on the coat of arms of Moscow since the 16th century.

Naturally, the story will have been embellished and changed over time, but perhaps there was some truth to its origins? How would the societies who told it have known about the description of the long tail and scales that match images of dinosaurs today?


17.png‘Beowulf’ is a story set in Scandinavia which is one of the oldest surviving works of literature written in Old English. It features a dragon slayer named Beowulf, who lived from 495-583AD, who fought multiple ocean reptiles and a dragon called a grendel. He died fighting a flying reptile, the description of  which features a pterosaur. Saxon stories also describe this creature elsewhere as a ligdraca, or fire dragon.


18.pngPolish traditions from the 12th century describe a creature called the Wawel dragon that lived in a cave in Krakow. It ate local cattle and eventually was poisoned with sulphur by a man named Krakus, whom the name of the city comes from.

 


19.pngSt Leonard’s Forest in Sussex, England is famous for a booklet that was published in 1614 about a dragon that lived there. It says:

“This serpent (or dragon as some call it) is reputed to be nine feete, or rather more, in length, and shaped almost in the form of an axletree of a cart…The former part, which he shootes forth as a necke, is supposed to be an elle [3ft 9 inches] long; with a white ring, as it were, of scales about it. The scales along his back seem to be blackish, and so much as is discovered under his belie, appeareth to be red… It rids away as fast as a man can run… There are likewise upon either side of him discovered two great bunches so big as a large foote-ball, and (as some thinke) will in time  grow to wings”.


20.pngThe Henham dragon was sighted near Henham in Essex, England in 1669 by multiple people, and locals were unable to kill it. These reports were only seven miles away from a town called Saffron Walden, where a flying reptile called a cockatrice was killed around the same time. 

 


21.pngIn the early 1900s, people in Glamorgan in Wales reported seeing flying serpents. Marie Trevelyan, one of the witnesses, said, “The woods around Penllin Castle… had the reputation of being frequented by winged serpents… described as very beautiful and… looked as if they were covered with jewels of all sorts. Some of them had crests sparkling with all the colours of the rainbow. When disturbed they glided swiftly, sparkling all over, to their hiding places. When angry, they flew over  people’s heads, with outspread wings, bright…”.


22.pngThe Welsh flag also has a red dragon featured on it, which may come from the ‘Historia Brittonum’, written in 830. It describes a struggle between a red and white serpent underground, which prevents King Vortigern from building a stronghold, and may symbolise the conflict in the 5-6th centuries between the Britons and Saxons. 


23.pngThe Anglo-Saxon Chronicle is a collection of Old English records, detailing Anglo-Saxon history. In 793AD, it reports, “This year came dreadful fore-warnings over the land of the Northumbrians, terrifying the people most woefully: these were immense sheets of light rushing through the air, and whirlwinds, and fiery, dragons flying across the firmament. These tremendous tokens were soon followed by a great famine:”

In 1405, it says, “Close to the town of Bures, near Sudbury, there has lately appeared, to the great hurt of the countryside, a dragon, vast in body, with a crested head, teeth like a saw, and a tail extending to an enormous length. Having slaughtered the shepherd of the flock, it devoured many sheep….In order to destroy him, all the country people around were summoned. But when the dragon saw that he was again to be assailed with arrows, he fled into a marsh… and was no more seen.”


24.pngChinese history also features dragons, especially around their new year celebrations. The Chinese zodiac calendar has twelve animals, one of which is a dragon. Why would they pick eleven existent animals (rat, ox, tiger, rabbit, snake, horse, goat, monkey, rooster, dog and pig) and also include a fictional animal such as a dragon?

It was also recorded that Chinese kings used dragons to pull their chariots, which Marco Polo also reported. In 1611, the Chinese Emperor appointed a Royal Dragon Feeder. Could it be possible that its origins in ancient Chinese mythology and legend tell of a time where humans walked with dinosaurs?


25.pngIn the 7th century, there is a legend that a dragon called Gargouille emerged from the River Seine in France and began to flood the land. It was described as having bat-like wings and a long neck. St Romanus led the creature and killed and burnt it, but the head and neck were mounted on the wall of the church.

The creature was then carved onto later buildings as a water drainage guttering system, which we know as a gargoyle.


We also have modern reports of dinosaur sightings. Although it is easier today for people to fabricate images or sightings, this doesn’t mean that there are not genuine reports out there.

One of the most famous modern examples of a dinosaur sighting is the Loch Ness Monster in Scotland. This is a sea creature with over 11,000 reported sightings, and many of the descriptions match the marine dinosaur called a plesiosaur.   

This sea monster that also resembles a plesiosaur washed up on Moore’s Beach in California in 1925. The neck was 20ft long. 

The Likouala swamp in the Congo covers an area of 55,000 square miles. Local pygmies describe a creature they call Mokele-mbembe, meaning ‘one who stops the flow of rivers’. It is a large reptile with a long neck and long tail, and there have been many searches to attempt to find this surviving sauropod dinosaur.

There are also many reports of pterodactyl-like creatures across the world. For example, in Chajudana in Venezuela, locals reported a giant bat that could capsize canoes and carry away Indians. When showed an image of a pterodactyl they identified it as what they had seen.

Perhaps these stories aren’t all fabricated or mythological. What if people were actually describing their experience of a real interaction with a dinosaur? Across the whole world and throughout history we see a universal understanding of dragons and dinosaurs. Could this be a result of us coexisting?

Is it possible for mankind to have evolved 65 million years after dinosaurs went extinct, and yet have such a vivid scientifically and historically accurate knowledge of them? An understanding that allows them to create stories and reports that all complement each other? Is it not more logical to argue that this came from real experience?

http://historysevidenceofdinosaursandmen.weebly.com/written.html

https://www.forbidden-history.com/herodotus.html

http://nwcreation.net/dinosdragons.html#Alexander_the_Great

http://www.strangehistory.net/2011/05/30/marco-polo-meets-a-dragon/

https://www.moltensulfur.com/single-post/2017/09/19/Pliny-Elephants-vs-Dragons

https://nyamcenterforhistory.org/2015/04/23/the-dragons-of-aldrovandi/

https://blog.oup.com/2014/09/who-was-saxo-grammaticus/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%B6lsunga_saga

http://www.dinosaursfordummies.org.uk/apollonius.html (Philostratus)

http://projectbritain.com/stgeorge2.html

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Beowulf

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Fafnir

https://www.inyourpocket.com/krakow/the-wawel-dragon_60715v

http://anomalyinfo.com/Stories/1614-august-dragon-st-leonards-forest

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Wales#Red_dragon_of_Wales

http://users.ox.ac.uk/~stuart/dits/main.html (Anglo-Saxon Chronicle)

https://www.authenticireland.com/gargoyles/

https://www.livescience.com/38871-mokele-mbembe.html

What about if they just found dinosaur bones?

Adrienne Mayor is a historian of ancient science and evolutionist. She researched whether legends and artefacts of dinosaurs could have just been based simply on human discovery of dinosaur bones and fossils at that time. However, it is much more explanatory to believe that they were based on actual interaction with dinosaurs.

For example, many of the depictions of dinosaurs show patterns on the skin, such as bumps or circles. Scientists believed that this was inaccurate, until recent discoveries have found fossilised dinosaur skin, which usually has round, non-overlapping scales, as shown below. 

This is something that they could not have known based on finding the bones of a dinosaur. Furthermore, even today, we do not really know what dinosaurs looked like. In 1990, a t-rex  skeleton was found in South Dakota that was only 80% complete, but was the most complete t-rex skeleton found so far. It showed that previously found t-rex skeletons were missing about half their bones.

Peter Dodson of the University of Pennsylvania said that 45.3% of dinosaurs are based on a single finding, with 74% being illustrated based on five findings or less.

3An argentinosaurus replica in the Fernbank Museum of Natural History in Georgia which is 120ft long was created based on finding only 10% of its bones, as shown in the picture.

A large part of illustrating the dinosaurs involves creating their skin and outward appearance. However, we cannot know this from finding the bones, so it is mostly based on guesswork. For example, if we did not have kangaroos today but only found their bones, we would not know they had a pouch, as it is a fold of skin, without any bones in it. There may be similar elements on dinosaurs without bones, and therefore we can never fully know what the dinosaurs looked like.

It is highly improbable that societies and tribes from across the world were able to find the complete skeletons of many different types of dinosaurs and without the technology that we have today, dig them up while they remained completely intact. From this, they would then have assumed what dinosaurs looked like and been highly accurate in illustrating them.

This also cannot explain modern accounts of dinosaur sightings or interactions. Although some of these can clearly be edited pictures or false, some of them are clearly real. For example, indigenous tribes that have never been told what a dinosaur is, and yet describe creatures that perfectly match known dinosaur species.

Evolutionists are so threatened by the idea of dinosaurs and humans coexisting that they even hypothesise the most illogical of theories to explain away the evidence. For example, evolutionist Carl Sagan wrote a book called ‘The Dragons of Eden’, where he proposed that early mammals (which millions of years later evolved into humans) living alongside the dinosaurs were so terrified by their competition with the dinosaurs, that the memory of it became encoded in their DNA and was passed on genetically.

He argued that humans therefore evolved with imprinted memories of the dinosaurs and therefore created the imagery and legends we have found today based on their memory, rather than actual experience. However, there is no evidence that memories can be passed on genetically, or that they can last in DNA for millions of years but still be acknowledgeable and yet also not consciously available.

Carl Sagan himself said, “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”, and yet there is no evidence to suggest that his theory is possible. Clearly though, even he acknowledges the issue that legends and artefacts showing dinosaurs with humans poses for evolutionary theory.

https://press.princeton.edu/titles/9435.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/earth/story/20160217-what-was-it-like-to-be-a-dinosaur

http://www.fernbankmuseum.org/explore/permanent-exhibitions/giants-of-the-mesozoic/

https://christiananswers.net/q-eden/ednks001.html

http://publicism.info/science/cosmos/12.html

What happened to the dinosaurs?

In Genesis 6:19, God says to Noah, “And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.” The Bible is clear that every animal was taken on Noah’s ark to survive the global flood. Therefore, we can assume that dinosaurs were included in this. It is likely that young dinosaurs would have been taken to maximise space and reproductive capacity, and only each dinosaur ‘kind’, rather than all the different dinosaurs.

The question now lies in what happened to the dinosaurs after they came off the ark. This is not something the Bible outlines, but we can create a range of theories based on our experience of animal behaviour and how humans and animals live alongside each other.

First of all, after the flood, the dinosaur population would have been greatly reduced. They would also have been a threat to mankind, as both a potential predator and a much larger animal. It is possible that following the flood, humans could have killed dinosaurs for sport, for food or to eliminate a risk to their survival.

This does not mean they were made extinct immediately, as we have a large number of findings of both man-made artifacts as well as biological findings such as bones or fossils, which would suggest that the dinosaurs survived for enough time to leave this evidence.

However, we can imagine that possibly over the centuries or even millennia after the flood, mankind would have attempted to reduce the numbers of dinosaurs, for their own safety and survival.

An evolutionary timescale relies on dinosaurs living millions of years ago, before humans. Without this, their theory falls apart. This is why we have been so wired to believe dinosaurs were millions of years old, even though a huge range of evidence says otherwise.

As we have already seen in the Defending Genesis page, humans before the flood had much longer lifespans. Methuselah lived to 969 years old. After the flood, this began to decrease, possibly due to different conditions for life on earth after a global flood.

One difference between mammals and reptiles is that mammals reach a certain size and then stop growing, whereas reptiles can potentially keep growing throughout their entire life. Turtles today can live to be about 200, if we compare their growth rate to an estimated lifespan of 1700 years of age before the flood, turtles could have grown to forty feet in diameter.

Dr Carl Baugh tried to replicate pre-flood environmental conditions in a study, and found that it expanded the life span of drosophila fruit flies by up to three generations, changed venom in copperhead snakes to non-poisonous, and accelerated the growth of piranhas from two inches to sixteen inches over two and a half years.

This could explain the size of larger dinosaur fossils, as they may have lived for hundreds of years and kept growing, whereas after the flood if their lifespans decreased they may not have grown to the same size. However, we do not know whether the lifespans changed for animals, we only have recorded in the Bible the ages of humans.

Finally, there are many species of animals we used to think were extinct but now we know are not. For instance, coelacanth is a fish that was presumed extinct 65 million years ago. Gracilidris which is a type of ant, the giant palouse earthworm, the arakan forest turtle, Omura’s whale, Australian night parrot, a lizard called the terror skink and many other species, were all thought to be extinct before they were rediscovered.

It was once believed that mammoths and humans did not exist together, until scientists discovered sites where mammoths were killed by humans. Is it impossible to believe that the same misunderstanding could exist with humans and dinosaurs?

http://www.keelynet.com/biology/baugh.htm

https://www.care2.com/causes/10-animals-we-thought-were-extinct-but-arent.html

See the links below for more information:

http://historysevidenceofdinosaursandmen.weebly.com/

https://www.discoveryworld.us/dinosaur-world/

https://answersingenesis.org/dinosaurs/humans/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrkYDzILgtA

https://creation.com/dinosaur-questions-and-answers

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